Kieran Webber
Director and Founder of CLUNK Magazine, CLUNK Events, and other CLUNK affiliate businesses. You’ll probably find me tucked away somewhere sending emails, listening to music, and creating content.
London’s Giant Killers chat to us about getting their masters back after 30 years, releasing new music, and more
The indie-pop band Giant Killers, who are songwriting duo Jamie Wortley (guitar, keys, lead vocals) and Michael Brown (bass, keys, brass, vocals) speak to CLUNK Magazine about their new single entitled ‘When This Time is Over’ which was released on 24th May via Little Genius.
This follows the release in January of their critically acclaimed debut album, ‘Songs For The Small Places’ nearly three decades on from when they recorded it! The album has received a universally rapturous reception the band were not expecting…
Kieran: Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us! How are you?
M: We’re all fine and dandy here – we’ve been looking forwards to speaking with you lovely Clunk folks.
Kieran: How’s your summer been so far? Any highlights?
M: It’s been eventful and then some. A Lot of it is not related to rock and roll.
J: I’m about to become a father again – my second daughter is due round about now so if I don’t finish the end of this interview, you’ll know why.
M: And my news is that I’m opening a restaurant in Primrose Hill – it’s got a two-time Michelin star winning chef and it is staffed entirely by people from the homeless community. It’s the world’s first social impact fine dining restaurant.
J: Are Giant Killers doing the opening night?
M: We can’t afford us.
J: I guess these are highlights in waiting – so far though, a high point has been how well received our work has been in the modern-day music press…
M: People have been saying all sorts of lovely things about our song writing. Not bad for an album that has been 3 decades in the making.
Kieran: So, you signed to MCA Records back in 1995 and have finally gotten your rights back. How does that feel and are you excited to finally release your music into the wild?
M: We’re certainly ecstatic to see a work we gave so much to in an earlier part of our lives emerge blinking into the light.
J: And to see that work thriving as a critical success.
M: I’m feeling distinctly paternal towards the work – like smiling as you wave off a child while worrying and hoping that child will find their place in the world.
J: It also feels like a kind of closure – it’s been unfinished business for nearly 30 years and here we are finishing the business.
How come it has taken so long for this to happen and why did the label sit on the record?
M: For a long time, we considered ourselves to have been ground up by the Music Industry mill – we spent the entirety of our late teens and throughout our twenties in the back of a van, on the road, and in studios – we started our own label, then went on to have not just one but two major record and publishing deals in that part of our lives.
J: Ultimately, we got unceremoniously dumped out of the business. Essentially for not selling enough units. This was in an era with an unrecognisably different business model to that which exists today – back then, the expectation for any artist on a major label was to sell 100s of 000s of physical product in their first releases.
M: This whipping away of the carpet beneath our dreams triggered a period of reflection and re-evaluation, and inevitably disillusion.
J: We changed our dreams, we had lives outside of music – and as life tends to do – it became more complex, more adult!
M: In one sense we forgot about the music on Songs for the Small Places, even though we wrote many more new ones
J: But this time just for the sheer pleasure of it, for the joy of creation. It was after a friend asked us to reunite Giant Killers for a birthday gig in Leeds that we were reminded of the power of those old songs when we played them live again. That was when we thought, hmmm… maybe it’s time to do something about this – to bring us to where we are now.
M: There was of course the little matter of getting our rights back – that was a time-consuming affair, but not because of any particular sinister machinations of the music industry. Although there was a little bit of that, the delay can be explained mainly because the music industry eats itself. Take our publishing deal – that was originally with a small West London outfit called Windswept Pacific, who were later acquired by EMI, who were then acquired by Sony. Tracking who owns what rights and which contracts are valid became a labyrinth like occupation.
Kieran: What advice would you give to any bands signing to labels today?
M: Mainly to be aware that signing to a label is not necessarily the answer to all your dreams. Getting the deal is often the main goal for aspiring young artists early in their career – as if success will naturally follow once the ink on the contract is dry.
J: We used to think that getting the deal was like winning the lottery, but we learned from bitter experience that it was more like buying the ticket – you’re in the draw, but there’s no guarantee you’ll win anything.
M: I guess what we’re saying is, once you’ve signed don’t rest on your laurels. Don’t think, because you now have people at the label to take care of business, that now’s the time to fly off to a barn in Tuscany to write that concept album you’ve always dreamed off.
J: Always be taking care of business – keep your weather eye on the people in the business to make sure they’re representing your best interests.
M: And make sure you yourself are aware of what your best interests are.
J: And finally, always take the advice of a jaded pro with a pinch of salt.
Kieran: Do you feel that artists even need labels any more?
M: I lean towards the Taylor Swift approach– who needs a record label when you can do it yourself, especially when the means of distribution have been democratised. At the same time, not many artists have Taylor Swift’s wealth and power – your music still needs to be promoted and in theory at least – the majors should be good at that.
J: What is interesting about the modern artist is that it’s not enough to be a great performer, writer and musician – to stand out in the competitive landscape that is the music industry you should probably invest time into any talent you might have for promotion and marketing.
M: And if you are good at self-promotion…
J: And Mike is brilliant at it.
M: Thank you Jamie, I’m not sure you’re paying me a compliment… As I was saying, if you’re good at self-promotion then you could argue that a label is surplus to requirements.
J: But on the other hand, having a label is an endorsement of your talent too – it says to the world that it’s not just you who thinks you’re great.
M: He might be having a pop at me again!
J: And a truly supportive label, perhaps an independent, with a small yet dedicated team, who do actually think you’re great, and to be clear, I really do think you’re great Mike, would be a good thing to have on your side.
M: Our advice then, apologies for taking a long time to get here, is before you sign your life away, to have a think about what works best for you, your unique place in the world and your personality and skillsets, and contrast with the support the label are offering.
Kieran: What does ‘When This Time Is Over’ mean to you?
J: This song is close to our hearts. It was the first one we wrote together. Before we signed to MCA we had another recording contract with Arista, but not as writers.
M: When we got dropped from that deal, it was a huge blow, but hitting the canvas without throwing a few punches on the way down was not an option for us – we weren’t brought up to give up – we decided to give it another go.
J: But as writers – to have complete artistic control for the first time. When This Time is Over was our launch pad for Giant Killers. It’s got rock and roll heritage too – we wrote it on a guitar that Butch Vig had played.
M: He was a legend to us as he produced Nevermind. For many of our generation – this album was one of a tight handful that soundtracked our lives. I’d like to think, despite it being so stylistically different, that When This Time is Over contains a little bit of Smells Like Teen Spirit in there!
The guitar in question belonged to our mate Simon Gunning – an artist manager who looked after Butch Vig’s later incarnation as Garbage. He shared an office with our old manager, and he kept the guitar in a corner. We knocked around the place after office hours because we used to live in another office just down the corridor….
J: After we lost that first record deal, we were skint and had nowhere to live – our manager gave us that empty office while we found our feet.
M: We’d pop into Simon’s office after hours to use that guitar.
J: But we didn’t break in – sorry Simon if you’re reading this. You did leave the key under the plant pot.
M: We used that guitar to write When This Time Over, and everything that later became Songs for the Small Places. We’d seen Butch playing it a few times while visiting Simon on business.
J: We hoped a little of his magic would rub off from his fingers and onto our artistic endeavours!
Listen to ‘When This Time Is Over’ here:
Kieran: Lastly, what else can we expect from you in 2024?
M: Well, we have our first major festival gig in 28 years as Giant Killers. We’re opening the main stage at Shiiine On in November – which is a festival featuring lots of 90s legends…
J: And us.
M: Hmmm, Jamie is naturally self-effacing. We’re building a tour for the back end of the year.
J: And we have a string of singles coming up – next up is Around the Blocks, which is out on Aug 2nd.
M: Then we have Who Am I Fooling as our third single off the album arriving in October. And we’re aiming for a seasonal Number 1 – everyone loves a power balled at Xmas, and ours is called I Hoped One Day You Would Know My Name.
J: Which is art imitating life as Michael often forgets my name.
M: It’s not personal buddy – I forget mine too – age is a terrible thing.