Phoebe Green On New EP, Vulnerability, And The Power Of Personal Expression

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With her new EP, The Container, out now, we speak to Manchester artist Phoebe Green about the release, her upcoming tour, and her journey towards self-understanding

“It just feels like I feel safe now in my life, self and my body and everything, to be vulnerable. I feel like I can express myself and not try to make it too abstract or whatever– I’m just saying things I want to.”

As we spoke about her upcoming release, the Manchester artist’s self-awareness was striking. Sat on the floor of her flat, where most of the EP was written, she discussed her recent growth in reaching sincere vulnerability– a position she has been working towards since she first started making music as a teenager. While her past works, from her first project ’02:00AM’ through to her latest singles and 2022 album ‘Lucky Me’ have all exhibited an impressive degree of depth and wisdom, Green explains that her upcoming EP, ‘The Container‘, takes introspection to an even greater level.

“I think I’m so used to disguising vulnerability with humor, and I think this EP just doesn’t do that for once,” she said. “So that’s nice. It’s a lot less judgmental.”

With characteristically raw lyrics, which often come dressed in synth-dripping sounds and built-up sonic landscapes, Green has earned herself a strong reputation in the indie-pop scene, often presented in a vibrant, tangerine-tinted package that feels representative of her maximalist sound. As we spoke, she sported an all black outfit, with multicoloured nails that added a pop of colour – “Have you seen, they’re my natural nails? And they’re actually long for once”

“I enjoy the fact that my visuals don’t necessarily fit with how dark the music can be sometimes. And I think that’s very telling of just how I am as a person, even though I’m wearing all black now.”

With her new EP just days away, we spoke to Green about all things new music, production, self-discovery and tour plans.

Katie: So how are you doing? Your EP, ‘The Container’, is coming out so soon- how are you feeling about it?

Phoebe: I feel really good. I’m really nervous. I think more nervous than I have been about a release in a while, but I think it’s just because I’ve had so much more control over the entire thing than I’ve ever had before. I’ve written it all, and I’ve co-produced it, and it just feels like such a piece of myself. I don’t have any anxiety around whether it’s good or not, it’s more of an urgency– I just really want people to hear it. I think it represents me really well.

Kieran: That’s really nice. So this is a really exciting project for you. The whole thing has been written entirely by you, you’ve co-produced the EP, it’s all been created by a really small team. And you made the switch around last year to releasing independently. How has that process been, having that control? Have you enjoyed the creative freedom of it or has it been quite daunting?

Phoebe: A bit of both. I think I’ve really enjoyed it– it’s definitely the most I’ve enjoyed writing ever. It’s been great with a smaller team. I think it’s just been tough because there’s a lot more blame towards myself if something doesn’t immediately take off. I’m like, Oh God, it must be my fault. But obviously that’s not always the case. But it has been really rewarding, and every time something has gone better than expected, I’ve also been like that’s because of me.

“I think it’s just been tough because there’s a lot more blame towards myself if something doesn’t immediately take off“

Katie: So powerful. And in terms of the whole sound of the EP, from what I’ve heard so far it’s just great. We’ve got What Are You Doing which has this nice rawness to it through quite an upbeat lens, and then Rage Of A Kid, which has this airy, dreamy synth sound that’s just characteristically Phoebe Green. For people who are less familiar with your sound, do you want to talk a bit about what inspires your music and what inspired the sound of this EP? 

Phoebe: I mean, having the freedom of doing it all myself and intentionally choosing to do it that way, I think now I know what I want things to sound like. I love collaboration now– I used to hate it– but I’m better now that I know how I want things to sound, even in a room with other people. But now that I’m doing it all by myself, I think I’ve really become more intentional. I always want to marry the sound and the lyrics. I used to do it a lot when I first started and I think it’s so important for those two things to feel attached, even if it’s in a polarising way where the lyrics are really optimistic and the music sounds really dark, or the opposite way around.

“I’ve said a few times that I think my limitations in technical ability have really shaped my sound.”

I like the little details, I guess, to really make you focus on what I’m saying. And I think even though all the songs on this EP are really different, it’s still kind of cohesive because everything is just enhancing the story and what I’m trying to say. I’ve said a few times that I think my limitations in technical ability have really shaped my sound. I’ve just had a lot of freedom to piss about and see what sounds I enjoy and what sounds elevate the message. I’ve just really enjoyed playing with everything.

Katie: Do you think you’ve learned a lot about producing things yourself throughout this process?

Phoebe: Yeah, for sure. I think, a lot of the time, less is more. And I’m quite a maximalist in every way. So musically, it’s been quite difficult. I keep saying as well, especially about I Could Try to Change, which is out on Friday as the EP single, I’m like, oh my god, it’s such a pop song. I feel so exposed. I played it for someone the other day and they were like, this is still a really odd pop song. But it feels so like vulnerable to strip layers away sometimes,

Katie: Definitely. And do you want to chat a bit about what kind of topics you’re exploring on this EP, and any inspirations that have been behind that?

Phoebe: Because I did all of it either in my bedroom at my flat or in my bedroom at my mum and dad’s, it definitely had more of an intimate feel, and definitely allowed me to be more vulnerable. I think a lot of the content and a lot of the lyrics I probably wouldn’t have felt able to say in a room with another person, no matter how close I was with them. Being completely alone in the writing process definitely helped me to dig deep, which I thought I’d been doing for years, but I don’t think I actually have. Not in this way anyway, not in a way that’s not self deprecating. I think I’m so used to disguising vulnerability with humor, and I think this EP just doesn’t do that for once. So that’s nice. It’s a lot less judgmental.

Katie: Totally, I think there’s something beautiful in taking a celebratory approach to vulnerability rather than being fully self-deprecating. The rawness and depth of your past songs is something I’ve always loved. Is that something that’s always come naturally to you, being vulnerable? Or has music, and more specifically this project, been a way for you to grow in your confidence and ability to open up? 

Phoebe: I think when I first started, when I was a teenager, I was writing as an outlet. That’s how it all started, I just couldn’t contain my feelings, and I just had to get it out. But I think back then I was vulnerable, but in a way, that just didn’t feel intentional or measured. It didn’t feel like I was processing things. It just felt like I was getting it all out.

And then I think over the past few years, I have been able to write from a vulnerable place, but like I said, it felt quite self deprecating. I found it hard to be completely sincere. It’s been more of just telling stories rather than reflecting on how I feel about things. And I think this EP feels vulnerable– I’m accepting the vulnerability and allowing myself to be vulnerable and allowing other people to see that I can be vulnerable and not sorry. It just feels like I feel safe now in my life, self and my body and everything, to be vulnerable. I feel like I can express myself and not try to make it too abstract or whatever– I’m just saying things I want to.

Katie: That’s really nice. And in terms of expressing yourself, I feel like you’ve always had such a strong image behind you. It seems to me that things like colour, creativity, and crafting a whole world beyond your music is always something you’ve considered. So how is it kind of been crafting the visual world behind this release?

Phoebe: Yes, oh my god. It’s so funny– I was literally with a friend today who’s also a musician, and we were talking about visual branding and stuff. I was saying that I enjoy the fact that my visuals don’t necessarily fit with how dark the music can be sometimes. And I think that’s very telling of just how I am as a person.

Doing the visuals for this EP has been so fun because when I first started releasing music, I just wasn’t fully comfortable in who I was or how I was presenting myself. Now I am, and I’ve been able to do all the visual stuff for this EP with my best friends. It’s just been so good. I’ve been editing the final music video for the EP today, and even the way I’m delivering the songs in the videos feels a lot freer now. I think in old videos, I’m very deadpan– there’s a lot of colour and there’s a lot of stuff going on around me, but I’m still kind of dissociated. But in the new stuff, it feels like I’m actually feeling everything I’m saying, which is nice. 

But yeah, I think it’s important to me to have a solid aesthetic but for it to add something else to the music, rather than being completely cohesive. I think I like that. It shows light and dark, and they can compliment and inform each other and contrast each other at the same time.

Katie: Do you have any advice to other people who are looking to build more of a world behind their music? And for those trying to grow to feel more comfortable within themselves or showcase themselves more truly?

Phoebe: That’s a great question. I think it’s important not to just see what is visually trendy, and to not dilute your music or dilute your own personal style or personal expression to fit something that pre exists. I feel like we’ve got so many amazing artists at the minute that have such a clear visual world around the music. But I think a lot of it is very unique, and I think there are now a lot of people trying to imitate that, but it makes it less special, because it feels like it’s more like following a trend. So I think it’s really important to draw from personal experience and personal style. And there will always be a space for it, because no one is the same. So yeah, be yourself.

Katie: To finish off, you’re heading on tour soon! I’ve seen that preparations are underway. Do you want to talk about how that’s going, and is there anything exciting that you have planned for the tour?

Phoebe: I’m very excited about the merch, because I normally do just t-shirts, tote bags, stuff like that. But I knew that for this release on this tour, I really wanted to do something a bit different. And so I’ve done caps and pants that say The Container on them. I just love it.

When we started doing our rehearsals, I was worried about how the new songs were going to sound, because I obviously just really want them to sound amazing. And I think I was really pleasantly surprised by how full they sounded. I was scared, because I pushed myself vocally on a lot on these songs, and I was like, I’m not gonna be able to do it. But it was fine– it all sounds so good. And I just can’t wait. I feel like there’s gonna be such a good connection with the new songs, because it all just feels so me.

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Phoebe Green’s EP ‘The Container’ is out NOW!

Catch Phoebe on tour here.

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